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tempested_bird) wrote2008-10-23 01:29 pm
tempested_bird) wrote2008-10-23 01:29 pm
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Proposition 8: Fact vs. Fiction
A.K.A.: California is not as liberal as Non-Californians like to think it is.
Yes, I know that I'm not usually one to post about politics because the current state of politics in the U.S. and especially California aggravates the hell out of me, and talking about it only raises my blood pressure. That said, when something like Proposition 8 pops up in California, I'll be damned if I'm going to shut up about it.
Proposition 8 proposes to remove the right for same-sex couples to marry in California. It's trying to pass that only a marriage between a man and a woman will be valid and recognised in this state.
Excuse me? Uhm, no.
Most of the arguments for it have been shaky and circular at best outright lies at their worst. Things like "it will teach gay marriage in schools" (first of all, what's wrong with that), it will remove the tax exempt or religious status of organisations that do not recognise same-sex marriage as part of their belief structure and there is all kinds of litigation that people are waiting to begin once it passes, etc. etc.
I've found this handy-dandy little website that for the most part separates the fact and fiction surrounding this particular proposition, for your edification.
Propsition 8: Fact vs. Fiction
Fiction: Prop 8 doesn’t discriminate against gays.
* Fact: Prop 8 is simple: it eliminates the rights for same-sex couples to marry. Prop 8 would deny equal protections and write discrimination against one group of people—lesbian and gay people—into our state constitution.
Fiction: Teaching children about same-sex marriage will happen here unless we pass Prop 8.
* Fact: Not one word in Prop 8 mentions education, and no child can be forced, against the will of their parents, to be taught anything about health and family issues at school. California law prohibits it, and the Yes on 8 campaign knows they are lying. Sacramento Superior Court Judge Timothy Frawley has already ruled that this claim by Prop 8 proponents is “false and misleading.” The Orange County Register, traditionally one of the most conservative newspapers in the state, says this claim is false. So do lawyers for the California Department of Education.
Fiction: Churches could lose their tax-exemption status.
* Fact: Nothing in Prop 8 would force churches to do anything. In fact, the court decision regarding marriage specifically says “no religion will be required to change its religious policies or practices with regard to same-sex couples, and no religious officiant will be required to solemnize a marriage in contravention of his or her religious beliefs.”
Fiction: A Massachusetts case about a parent’s objection to the school curriculum will happen here.
* Fact: Unlike Massachusetts, California gives parents an absolute right to remove their kids and opt-out of teaching on health and family instruction they don’t agree with. The opponents know that California law already covers this and Prop 8 won’t affect it, so they bring up an irrelevant case in Massachusetts.
Fiction: People can be sued over personal beliefs.
* Fact: California’s laws already prohibit discrimination against anyone based on race, religion, gender, or sexual orientation. This has nothing to do with marriage.
Fiction: Unless Prop 8 passes, CA parents won’t have the right to object to what their children are taught in school.
* Fact: California law clearly gives parents and guardians broad authority to remove their children from any health instruction if it conflicts with their religious beliefs or moral convictions.
Yes, I know that I'm not usually one to post about politics because the current state of politics in the U.S. and especially California aggravates the hell out of me, and talking about it only raises my blood pressure. That said, when something like Proposition 8 pops up in California, I'll be damned if I'm going to shut up about it.
Proposition 8 proposes to remove the right for same-sex couples to marry in California. It's trying to pass that only a marriage between a man and a woman will be valid and recognised in this state.
Excuse me? Uhm, no.
Most of the arguments for it have been shaky and circular at best outright lies at their worst. Things like "it will teach gay marriage in schools" (first of all, what's wrong with that), it will remove the tax exempt or religious status of organisations that do not recognise same-sex marriage as part of their belief structure and there is all kinds of litigation that people are waiting to begin once it passes, etc. etc.
I've found this handy-dandy little website that for the most part separates the fact and fiction surrounding this particular proposition, for your edification.
Propsition 8: Fact vs. Fiction
Fiction: Prop 8 doesn’t discriminate against gays.
* Fact: Prop 8 is simple: it eliminates the rights for same-sex couples to marry. Prop 8 would deny equal protections and write discrimination against one group of people—lesbian and gay people—into our state constitution.
Fiction: Teaching children about same-sex marriage will happen here unless we pass Prop 8.
* Fact: Not one word in Prop 8 mentions education, and no child can be forced, against the will of their parents, to be taught anything about health and family issues at school. California law prohibits it, and the Yes on 8 campaign knows they are lying. Sacramento Superior Court Judge Timothy Frawley has already ruled that this claim by Prop 8 proponents is “false and misleading.” The Orange County Register, traditionally one of the most conservative newspapers in the state, says this claim is false. So do lawyers for the California Department of Education.
Fiction: Churches could lose their tax-exemption status.
* Fact: Nothing in Prop 8 would force churches to do anything. In fact, the court decision regarding marriage specifically says “no religion will be required to change its religious policies or practices with regard to same-sex couples, and no religious officiant will be required to solemnize a marriage in contravention of his or her religious beliefs.”
Fiction: A Massachusetts case about a parent’s objection to the school curriculum will happen here.
* Fact: Unlike Massachusetts, California gives parents an absolute right to remove their kids and opt-out of teaching on health and family instruction they don’t agree with. The opponents know that California law already covers this and Prop 8 won’t affect it, so they bring up an irrelevant case in Massachusetts.
Fiction: People can be sued over personal beliefs.
* Fact: California’s laws already prohibit discrimination against anyone based on race, religion, gender, or sexual orientation. This has nothing to do with marriage.
Fiction: Unless Prop 8 passes, CA parents won’t have the right to object to what their children are taught in school.
* Fact: California law clearly gives parents and guardians broad authority to remove their children from any health instruction if it conflicts with their religious beliefs or moral convictions.
no subject
no subject
Voting is one thing, but voting on something that is specifically discriminatory is something else completely. I only somewhat agree with you when you say that the vote itself is never immoral. The vote itself, outside of its context, is not immoral because it has no meaning. A vote cannot really be a vote unless itself is put into context of something, and that assigns it its meaning. To that end, a person can put a judgment on whether or not it is immoral.
As much as I love the Bay Area, I've decided that if this passes, I'm not probably coming back after I leave for grad school. I'm done.
no subject
Right now, it's looking like a dead heat or leaning towards no. Considering the amount of people who will be mobilizing for Obama, it throws polling out of whack. A lot of the voters being mobilized for Obama are minorities, and in general, minorities run very conservative when it comes to social issues that do not involve race (abortion, gay marriage, etc.). However, they'll also run liberal in general, as Obama is definitely a liberal.
If you were to corner the pollsters, I imagine they'd all be unwilling to place a bet in Vegas on how this is going to come out.
no subject